Okay, guys, 'fess up
This post is aimed particularly at Orthodox men: Since it seems to be the case that at least some Conservative laymen and laywomen skip parts of the prayers when leading daily services, I'd like to know whether some of you frum gents do likewise. When serving as baal t'fillah/prayer leader at a weekday service, do you ever skip parts of the prayers in order to finish in a locally-acceptable amount of time?
posted by Shira Salamone at 8:34 AM
12 Comments:
Never. While I may not pronounce each syllable of p'sukei d'zimra aloud carefully, I skip nothing. And with regard to the matbeya shel tefillah, I am even more careful. Nothing gets skipped or abbreviated.
That's tefillah malpractice, IMO.
No way.
"tefillah malpractice"
That was pretty much my reaction when the baal t'fillah told me that he kept up the pace by skipping. How can a persoon claim to be "the messenger/representative of the congregation" (shaliach tzibur) if s/he doesn't (help them) fulfill their prayer obligation by praying properly? I won't volunteer to lead my Kaddish Minyan unless and until I master the art of praying at the pace deemed acceptable to the minyan without skipping any of the prayers.
No. I would consider reading the English to myself, but under no circumstances would I daven by skipping from box to box (to use the Siddur Sim Shalom based expression).
In the C minyan in which I davened for the year after my father a"h died, we would always skip the same 3 psalms in pesukei d'zimra in order to be out on time. We also always did heche kedusha for the shacharit amida, unless it was a secular holiday and I was there, in which case I led that section of the service and we did a full repetition.
Larry, I tried davvening/praying in English one day last week just to see whether it would help me keep up, and was surprised to discover that I can't pray much faster in English. Either the translation is a bit too wordy or I read Hebrew more quickly than I thought (but not fast enough for a "commuter minyan.")
As for p'sukei d'zimrah, I skip so much that I've told people I play hopscotch through that part of the service. I always do Baruch ShehAmar, usually do Mizmor L'Todah/Psalm 100, always do Ashrei, usually do Hal'luhu min hashamayim (Psalm 148?), always do Psalm 150 hal'lu kel b'kosho, and from there on I do as much as I can 'til the shaliach tzibbur gets to Ki LaShem ha-m'luchah, at which point I stop wherever I am & go straight to Yishtabach, which I never skip, so that I can be with the minyan for kaddish and Bar'chu. After that, all bets are off. There are days when I barely finish the Amidah in time for Kaddish Yatom/Mourner's Kaddish.
Skip as in omit? No. Skip as in not actually say every word? Frankly, I'm not sure there's an Orthodox shul in the country where you can actually say every word of Aleinu before the Chazan finishes.
I guess the Conservatives are just mroe honest about it, and leave some stuff out, whereas the Orthodox will officially daven everything, but practically leave out plenty
"Skip as in omit? No. Skip as in not actually say every word?" I'm assuming that the fellow who said he skipped meant that he didn't say every word. I, on the other hand, won't skip a single word of the matbeyah shel t'fillah, but I'll omit most of P'sukei D'Zimrah and skip words or omit other entire psalms and prayers (such as Tachanun and Aleinu), if necessary, in order to say Kaddish Yatom/Mourner's Kaddish with the minyan. "Frankly, I'm not sure there's an Orthodox shul in the country where you can actually say every word of Aleinu before the Chazan finishes." Conservative morning minyanim aren't much better, in that regard. "I guess the Conservatives are just mroe honest about it . . ." Well, I'm Conservative, and if I'm any example . . . :)
I skip some of the Korbanos, but that's pretty accepted. You really should do those on your own time anyway. My problem is I can't remember which ones to skip. as for the rest, finishing too slowly isn't usually my problem. Except when I daven in New York.
"You really should do those on your own time anyway." I don't have much choice. I do Birkot HaShachar at home, to ensure that I will have said all of the blessings, plus Rabbi Yishmael Omer, plus Mizmor, Shir Hanukat HaBayit, L'David, before I say Kaddish d'Rabbanan or Kaddish Yatom--the minyan is way too fast for me.
You're fortunate to have received a yeshiva education and learned to daven in elementary school, which certainly has a lot to do with your ability to davven at a brisk pace. There's really no substitute for learning to pray from the age of 5 or 6. It'll probably take me at least another few years of daily davvening to enable me to pray at "daily-minyan speed."
As for the korbanot/sacrifice readings, I skip all korbanot on principle, since I do not wish to see animal sacrifice reinstituted (though I suppose that the readings re incense probably aren't too bad, albeit boring). I skip the Akedah/Binding of Isaac, too, also on principle--speaking as a parent, that's not my favorite loyalty test.
"finishing too slowly isn't usually my problem. Except when I daven in New York."
Mark/PT, apparently, I missed that remark on the first reading. You mean even *you* can't davven in a "New York minute"? :) Queens Guy, you've been living in Milwaukee too long. :)
Nope. If anything, it increases my concentration and patience.
Ari, that seems to work for some people. It just so happens that I'm not one of them. Consider yourself fortunate.
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