Tuesday, July 28, 2009
This post is aimed particularly at Orthodox men: Since it seems to be the case that at least some Conservative laymen and laywomen skip parts of the prayers when leading daily services, I'd like to know whether some of you frum gents do likewise. When serving as baal t'fillah/prayer leader at a weekday service, do you ever skip parts of the prayers in order to finish in a locally-acceptable amount of time?
About Me
- Name: Shira Salamone
Once upon a time, I belonged to a left-wing egalitarian Conservative synagogue, where I was one of a number of women who wore a tallit—and one of the few members who used an Orthodox prayer book (adding the Mothers, of course). Having moved since then, I now belong to a right-wing traditional Conservative synagogue, where I’m almost always the only woman wearing a tallit—and one of the few members who adds the Mothers. I seem destined to be forever . . . on the fringe.
PUBLIC SERVICE POSTS
- Park your ego at the door: Links to my series "On raising a child with disabilities"
- Parenting 101
- Febrile seizures: Life-saving information
Previous Posts
- My "Kaddish minyan": Good news, bad news
- An unexpected question
- Where are the baal*ot* t'shuvah commenters?
- Jordan strips Palestinians of citizenship,& no one...
- Another good reason to remain Conservative
- My informal survey re kippot-wearing by women
- Pre-Nine-Days prep: See my old post and Elie's
- Insurance malpractice?
- Eclectic Jewish Thoughts: Making the 3 weeks meani...
- Memories in a mirror
MY BLOGROLL
Archives
- August 2004
- September 2004
- October 2004
- November 2004
- December 2004
- January 2005
- February 2005
- March 2005
- April 2005
- May 2005
- June 2005
- July 2005
- August 2005
- September 2005
- October 2005
- November 2005
- December 2005
- January 2006
- February 2006
- March 2006
- April 2006
- May 2006
- June 2006
- July 2006
- August 2006
- September 2006
- October 2006
- November 2006
- December 2006
- January 2007
- February 2007
- March 2007
- April 2007
- May 2007
- June 2007
- July 2007
- August 2007
- September 2007
- October 2007
- November 2007
- December 2007
- January 2008
- February 2008
- March 2008
- April 2008
- May 2008
- June 2008
- July 2008
- August 2008
- September 2008
- October 2008
- November 2008
- December 2008
- January 2009
- February 2009
- March 2009
- April 2009
- May 2009
- June 2009
- July 2009
- August 2009
- September 2009
- October 2009
- November 2009
- December 2009
- January 2010
- February 2010
- March 2010
- April 2010
- May 2010
- June 2010
- July 2010
- August 2010
- September 2010
- October 2010
- November 2010
- December 2010
- January 2011
- February 2011
- March 2011
- April 2011
- May 2011
- June 2011
- July 2011
- August 2011
- September 2011
- October 2011
- November 2011
- December 2011
- January 2012
- February 2012
- March 2012
- April 2012
- May 2012
- June 2012
- July 2012
- August 2012
- September 2012
- October 2012
- November 2012
- December 2012
- January 2013
- February 2013
- March 2013
- April 2013
- May 2013
- June 2013
- July 2013
- August 2013
- September 2013
- October 2013
- November 2013
- December 2013
- January 2014
- February 2014
- March 2014
- April 2014
- May 2014
- June 2014
- July 2014
- August 2014
- September 2014
- October 2014
- November 2014
- December 2014
- January 2015
- February 2015
- March 2015
- April 2015
- May 2015
- June 2015
- July 2015
- August 2015
- September 2015
- October 2015
- November 2015
- December 2015
- January 2016
- February 2016
- March 2016
- April 2016
- May 2016
- June 2016
- July 2016
- August 2016
- September 2016
- October 2016
- November 2016
- December 2016
- January 2017
- February 2017
- March 2017
- April 2017
- May 2017
- June 2017
- July 2017
- August 2017
- September 2017
- October 2017
- November 2017
- December 2017
- January 2018
- February 2018
- March 2018
- April 2018
- May 2018
- July 2018
- August 2018
- September 2018
- October 2018
- November 2018
- December 2018
- January 2019
- February 2019
- March 2019
- April 2019
- May 2019
- June 2019
- July 2019
- August 2019
- September 2019
- October 2019
- November 2019
- December 2019
- January 2020
- February 2020
- March 2020
- April 2020
- May 2020
- June 2020
- July 2020
- August 2020
- September 2020
- October 2020
- November 2020
- December 2020
- January 2021
- February 2021
- March 2021
- April 2021
- May 2021
- June 2021
- July 2021
- August 2021
- September 2021
- October 2021
- November 2021
- December 2021
- January 2022
- February 2022
- March 2022
- April 2022
- May 2022
- June 2022
- July 2022
- August 2022
- September 2022
- October 2022
- November 2022
- December 2022
- January 2023
- February 2023
- March 2023
- April 2023
- May 2023
- June 2023
- July 2023
- August 2023
- September 2023
- October 2023
- November 2023
- December 2023
- January 2024
- February 2024
- March 2024
- April 2024
- May 2024
- June 2024
- July 2024
- August 2024
- September 2024
- October 2024
- November 2024
- December 2024
- January 2025
12 Comments:
Never. While I may not pronounce each syllable of p'sukei d'zimra aloud carefully, I skip nothing. And with regard to the matbeya shel tefillah, I am even more careful. Nothing gets skipped or abbreviated.
That's tefillah malpractice, IMO.
No way.
"tefillah malpractice"
That was pretty much my reaction when the baal t'fillah told me that he kept up the pace by skipping. How can a persoon claim to be "the messenger/representative of the congregation" (shaliach tzibur) if s/he doesn't (help them) fulfill their prayer obligation by praying properly? I won't volunteer to lead my Kaddish Minyan unless and until I master the art of praying at the pace deemed acceptable to the minyan without skipping any of the prayers.
No. I would consider reading the English to myself, but under no circumstances would I daven by skipping from box to box (to use the Siddur Sim Shalom based expression).
In the C minyan in which I davened for the year after my father a"h died, we would always skip the same 3 psalms in pesukei d'zimra in order to be out on time. We also always did heche kedusha for the shacharit amida, unless it was a secular holiday and I was there, in which case I led that section of the service and we did a full repetition.
Larry, I tried davvening/praying in English one day last week just to see whether it would help me keep up, and was surprised to discover that I can't pray much faster in English. Either the translation is a bit too wordy or I read Hebrew more quickly than I thought (but not fast enough for a "commuter minyan.")
As for p'sukei d'zimrah, I skip so much that I've told people I play hopscotch through that part of the service. I always do Baruch ShehAmar, usually do Mizmor L'Todah/Psalm 100, always do Ashrei, usually do Hal'luhu min hashamayim (Psalm 148?), always do Psalm 150 hal'lu kel b'kosho, and from there on I do as much as I can 'til the shaliach tzibbur gets to Ki LaShem ha-m'luchah, at which point I stop wherever I am & go straight to Yishtabach, which I never skip, so that I can be with the minyan for kaddish and Bar'chu. After that, all bets are off. There are days when I barely finish the Amidah in time for Kaddish Yatom/Mourner's Kaddish.
Skip as in omit? No. Skip as in not actually say every word? Frankly, I'm not sure there's an Orthodox shul in the country where you can actually say every word of Aleinu before the Chazan finishes.
I guess the Conservatives are just mroe honest about it, and leave some stuff out, whereas the Orthodox will officially daven everything, but practically leave out plenty
"Skip as in omit? No. Skip as in not actually say every word?" I'm assuming that the fellow who said he skipped meant that he didn't say every word. I, on the other hand, won't skip a single word of the matbeyah shel t'fillah, but I'll omit most of P'sukei D'Zimrah and skip words or omit other entire psalms and prayers (such as Tachanun and Aleinu), if necessary, in order to say Kaddish Yatom/Mourner's Kaddish with the minyan. "Frankly, I'm not sure there's an Orthodox shul in the country where you can actually say every word of Aleinu before the Chazan finishes." Conservative morning minyanim aren't much better, in that regard. "I guess the Conservatives are just mroe honest about it . . ." Well, I'm Conservative, and if I'm any example . . . :)
I skip some of the Korbanos, but that's pretty accepted. You really should do those on your own time anyway. My problem is I can't remember which ones to skip. as for the rest, finishing too slowly isn't usually my problem. Except when I daven in New York.
"You really should do those on your own time anyway." I don't have much choice. I do Birkot HaShachar at home, to ensure that I will have said all of the blessings, plus Rabbi Yishmael Omer, plus Mizmor, Shir Hanukat HaBayit, L'David, before I say Kaddish d'Rabbanan or Kaddish Yatom--the minyan is way too fast for me.
You're fortunate to have received a yeshiva education and learned to daven in elementary school, which certainly has a lot to do with your ability to davven at a brisk pace. There's really no substitute for learning to pray from the age of 5 or 6. It'll probably take me at least another few years of daily davvening to enable me to pray at "daily-minyan speed."
As for the korbanot/sacrifice readings, I skip all korbanot on principle, since I do not wish to see animal sacrifice reinstituted (though I suppose that the readings re incense probably aren't too bad, albeit boring). I skip the Akedah/Binding of Isaac, too, also on principle--speaking as a parent, that's not my favorite loyalty test.
"finishing too slowly isn't usually my problem. Except when I daven in New York."
Mark/PT, apparently, I missed that remark on the first reading. You mean even *you* can't davven in a "New York minute"? :) Queens Guy, you've been living in Milwaukee too long. :)
Nope. If anything, it increases my concentration and patience.
Ari, that seems to work for some people. It just so happens that I'm not one of them. Consider yourself fortunate.
Post a Comment
<< Home